Researcher and author JAMES PERLOFF joins S.T. Patrick to discuss the events of 9/11. On this, the 17th anniversary of September 11, 2001, the 9/11 Truth community remains in flux. The divisions over the who, what, where, when, how, and why of the case have driven many former allies apart. Perloff has done extensive work on the case, and he has produced many articles. Tonight, he addresses the divisions within the 9/11 Truth community, as well as what he believes happened in NYC, Washington D.C., and over the skies of Pennsylvania. Perloff answers every question asked and he provides possible scenarios with almost every answer. As the author of The Shadows of Power and Truth is a Lonely Warrior, Perloff continues to do groundbreaking work on a variety of cases. Join us tonight as we re-assess 9/11.
James Perloff’s articles can be read at JamesPerloff.com. His books can be purchased on Amazon, as well as other online booksellers. His newest article is “James Perloff Discusses 9/11 with Christopher Bollyn.”It’s a fascinating transcript of a conversation between two original skeptics of the mainstream 9/11 story.
Video Below: Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11
Video Below: Solving 9/11 Christopher Bollyn Live in Dallas TX Feb 12, 2015
Audio: Christopher Bollyn, Dean Henderson, and Cat Watters discuss 9/11 and more
James Perloff Discusses 9/11 with Christopher Bollyn
Published September 7, 2018, four days before the 17th anniversary.
JP: Chris, it’s really great to have an opportunity to discuss 9/11 with you. I think you’re the top 9/11 researcher out there. I say that with total sincerity—not because I happen to be interviewing you right now. You do hands-on investigation—by that I mean you’ve directly confronted many 9/11 suspects, you’ve been to places like Shanksville, for example, and interviewed the people out there. After reading your book Solving 9/11, I think there have been times in the past where I mentioned certain facts about 9/11, and I didn’t even realize they were things originally discovered by you.
CB: Thank you! I was working as a journalist at the time for American Free Press, a weekly newspaper based in Washington, D.C. I also happened to be passing through New York City in the early hours of 9/11, which was a most unusual coincidence. When the Pentagon was bombed I decided not to go to my office in Washington, but to head back to Chicago, which took me near the Shanksville site, a place I visited several times.
From the beginning, the 9/11 atrocity was a subject that contained the kind of elements I had been working with for years. It was a story that showed clear signs of a cover-up by the government and media, and there were indications of Israeli involvement in the form of the five “dancing Israeli” agents who were arrested in New Jersey that afternoon.
I was fortunate that my editor let me write freely about 9/11 without any restrictions and that my articles often appeared on the front page of a newspaper in the nation’s capital. I began by investigating those aspects of the event that were clearly being omitted by the controlled media, such as the eyewitness reports of explosions at the World Trade Center. The things that the media omits from a story are often the most important parts.
I wound up writing hundreds of articles about the subject and decided to publish them in chronological order in a book entitled Solving 9-11: The Original Articles, which was published in 2012. This book shows how my research developed over time from 9/11 up until the spring of 2012, when the book came out. I call it the Mother Lode because it contains the facts and information upon which my analysis contained in Solving 9-11: The Deception that Changed the World is based. The two books are a set and complement each other.
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JP: You’ve done more, I think, than anyone else to expose the Israeli role in 9/11. I didn’t catch on to the guys arrested in the white van being Israelis until 2003, I believe, when I read the book Stranger than Fiction. But you were already writing about the “Dancing Israelis” in October of 2001!
CB: Yes, I had heard on the radio at about noon on 9/11 that the FBI was looking for five Middle Eastern men who had been seen making a video of the attacks at the World Trade Center. The next day, it came out in an article by Paolo Lima in the Bergen Record (NJ) that these men were arrested later that afternoon and that they were Israelis. Furthermore, two of them were on a list of known foreign intelligence agents, which brought up the question of Israeli involvement in the crime itself. I mean if you have prior knowledge of something like 9/11, which these men apparently had, it indicates some degree of involvement in the crime itself.
I spoke with Paolo Lima by phone and this story, entitled “Israeli Terror Suspects Captured by FBI,” was the first article I wrote about 9/11, coming out in American Free Press in the issue dated September 18, 2001.
JP: I realize that a lot of Americans have a hard time accepting Israel’s role in 9/11. I think it would be much easier for them if they knew the context of Israel’s long history of false-flag operations against the West, almost invariably disguising themselves as Arabs, which 9/11 might be said to be the culmination of.
CB: Yes! This is the main reason that Zionist history is not taught in American universities. There is a long history of Zionist terrorism beginning in the 1930s. The Zionist terrorist gangs of Irgun and Lehi (The Stern Gang) were known to be behind the murders of British officers and the U.N. mediator to Palestine, the Count Folke Bernadotte in the 1940s. They even bombed British embassies and sent a team of assassins to London! In 1946 they bombed Jerusalem’s King David Hotel killing 93 people.
In the early 1950s a cell of Israeli terrorists put bombs in British and U.S. facilities in Egypt in a little-known operation called the Lavon Affair. In 1967, the Israeli military attacked a U.S. Navy vessel, USS Liberty, killing or wounding seventy percent of the crew—and the attack has been covered-up by the U.S. government and media ever since. Rather than prosecuting the guilty, the American sailors were warned by their own officers to never talk about what they had experienced when Israeli missiles and torpedoes tried to kill them on June 8, 1967. If you understand the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty and how our government let Israel get away with cold-blooded murder on the high seas, you will be able to understand what really happened on 9/11.
Finally, in Rise and Kill First by Ronen Bergman, a new book about assassinations carried out by the state of Israel, he reveals that Israel ran a network of terrorist bombers in Lebanon from 1979 to 1983. This organization, set up by Rafael Eitan, the Israeli chief of staff under Menachem Begin, the terrorist who became prime minister, was called Front for the Liberation of Lebanon from Foreigners and killed hundreds, if not thousands of innocent people.
Although Bergman’s book has been reviewed and discussed by the New York Times and other media outlets, none of them have addressed this revelation that Israel was behind many of the terror bombings that plagued Lebanon during this period. It should be noted that hundreds of American marines were killed in Beirut in 1983 by exactly the same method perfected by the Israelis—the car bomb.
You see, it’s not that the information is not available but rather it’s a matter of it not being discussed in the mainstream media, which defines reality for so many people.
JP: I saw you speak during your 2016 book tour, and it was so good I came back to see you on your 2017 tour. There’s something I want to say about that. Last time I saw you speak—it was in Watertown, Mass.—there were quite a few Muslims in attendance. Not only was their behavior very polite and correct, they were the best-dressed guys there, all in coats and ties. My Truther friends and I were all dressed casual. I bring this up because many Americans have a stereotyped image of Muslims. In saying this, I’m not denying the radicalized sects of Islam—for example, the ISIS Wahhabis that are terrorizing Syria, backed by the Israelis, Saudis, and—regrettably—the U.S. itself. But I believe American patriots need to transcend some of their stereotypes about Muslims.
CB: Well, we need to ask ourselves, where did these stereotypes about Muslims and Arabs come from? Primarily they come to us through Hollywood films and TV shows. Muslim Arab is the one ethnic group that Hollywood has vilified as evil terrorists for decades, without being called racist!
So, as Israel ran a secret terror-bombing network in Lebanon, friends of Israel in Hollywood were making films portraying the Arab Muslim as the terrorist. See how that worked to create the Arab-terrorist stereotype?
JP: Oh, yes, I remember it was already hot and heavy in the 1980s with movies like The Delta Force and Back to the Future. Muslims, of course, took the heat for 9/11, and we’ve been bombing their countries ever since. But there is so much that points to Israel besides the “Dancing Israelis.” The Zionist PNAC and its call for a “New Pearl Harbor” in 2000; Michael Chertoff being in charge of the 9/11 investigation even though his mother was Mossad; Zelikow running the 9/11 Commission even though he was a dual-citizen Israeli; the security at all the 9/11 airports being run by ICTS, which was Israeli-owned; Silverstein’s close friendship with Netanyahu; the FAA and NORAD using software on 9/11 provided by two Israeli-linked firms, Ptech and MITRE. I mean, the list goes on and on. When my Truther friends heard your presentation, as the evidence against Israel stacked up, we started looking at each other, and doing face palms as we sunk lower into our seats.
CB: That’s right. The evidence of Israeli involvement in 9/11 is overwhelming. The bigger question is why? While 9/11 was a very complex crime with many aspects, the biggest reason for the false-flag deception was to drag the U.S. and its allies into an open-ended war in the Middle East. This is exactly what happened to us as a result of 9/11. As President Trump said, the U.S. has wasted $7 trillion in 17 years of war in the Middle East with no benefit to the American people.
When you understand that the War on Terror is an Israeli construct that was rolled out by Benjamin Netanyahu and Menachem Begin in the late 1970s to bring the U.S. military into the region to wage war against Israel’s enemies, the whole thing makes complete sense.
The difficulty is that many people who support Israel and Zionism know very little about the real history about the Zionist movement and the state it brought into being. As I said, the media and academia do little to make this history understandable, so we have a public that is ignorant and misinformed about Israel, the foreign state that receives the most support from the United States.
JP: There are some points in your book Solving 9/11 that I had not fully known before and blew me away. One was the war of attrition that Judge Hellerstein waged against the 96 families of 9/11 victims who wanted to litigate. Eventually, they were all forced to settle out of court. As you point out, what was there to hide if the government’s story was true? But what really “ground my gears” was that Hellerstein’s son worked as a lawyer in Israel, and one of his firm’s clients was tied to ICTS, which was running security at the 9/11 airports. Judge Hellerstein protected ICTS from litigation by dismissing it from the case. That was a clear-cut conflict of interest, and Hellerstein should have recused himself.
CB: Yes, of course. Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein had a conflict-of-interest in that his son Joseph is a lawyer in Israel with a firm that represented the parent company of ICTS, the Israeli company that managed passenger screening at Boston’s Logan airport on 9/11.
Furthermore, Judge Hellerstein is a Zionist with a conflict-of-interest in that he was presiding over a case in which the state of Israel was involved as the key defendant. The result of this is that not a single wrongful death case from the 3,000 families affected by 9/11 ever got their day in court. While 9/11 is the worst terrorist crime in U.S. history, there has never been a trial, although the U.S. says it has Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of 9/11, in custody in Guantanamo, Cuba. If they have the person they claim is the mastermind, why don’t they put him on trial?
JP: I learned so much more from your book—how George H. W. Bush appointed an Israeli to be his administration’s cyber chief; how Ehud Omert—the mayor of Jerusalem and future prime minister—was secretly in New York City on the eve of 9/11. But let me not give away too much; I want people to buy and read Solving 9/11.
CB: Well, if a person really wants to understand the false-flag deception of 9/11 and how we have been deceived into perpetual war, the Solving 9-11 set of books is essential reading along with the much smaller book, The War on Terror: The Plot to Rule the Middle East (2017). Although it may be very difficult to accept, we are certainly much better off with the truth about 9/11 and the War on Terror than we are with the lies that have been used to take us to war.
JP: Chris, I should probably mention how this interview came about. I’m working on a book of my own about 9/11. This is not intended to compete with your or anyone else’s work, but there are still some unresolved questions about 9/11, and having been contacted through my website by pilots, 9/11 witnesses, and others with expertise to offer, I feel I can contribute toward moving the 9/11 discussion forward. There are some tough questions that are nagging me about 9/11, and my first intention was to ask you these questions privately—but then I thought, why not make our discussion public? It might motivate a few informed people to contact us with additional insights.
CB: That’s a good idea.
JP: What I mostly want to ask you about are the planes and the alleged hijackers. I don’t want to get into the much-vetted collapse of Building 7, or the destruction of the Twin Towers. Suffice it to say, if anyone believes the Towers collapsed simply because they were hit by planes, they need to produce another example of a building collapse where multi-ton chunks of steel were hurled laterally at 70 miles per hour, or where the entire contents of a building—concrete, furniture, toilets, etc.—were all vaporized into dust.
CB: That’s right—and they fell at free fall velocity, in about 10 seconds. And prior to the collapse tons of molten iron poured off the 81st floor of the South Tower, another aspect of the demolition that has been ignored by the mainstream media. Evidently, various forms of thermite were used to destroy the towers including a form of nano-thermite, which has incredible explosive force and which apparently produced the billions of tiny spheres of iron found in the dust.
JP: Many of my readers know I have a different take on the method of the Towers’ final destruction, but we won’t belabor that here. Now regarding the planes. Once one realizes that the Twin Towers were intentionally demolished—regardless of which demolition theory one adheres to—it becomes apparent that the plane strikes, or what are called plane strikes, had to be guaranteed in advance. Because if a plane had veered and only clipped a Tower with its wing, there would have been no way to then justify demolishing the Tower. So those planes strikes had to be guaranteed. And indeed, all 3 planes—excluding 93, which didn’t get past Shanksville—scored bullseyes. This in turn means the planes were not being steered by hijackers, because no hijacker could make that guarantee—he could lose his nerve and chicken out, or he could just miss.
CB: That’s true, which means that the planes were most likely weaponized Boeing tankers flown by remote control—i.e. weaponized drones. This is what the video images indicate that show a pod on the underside of the plane from which a missile appears to have been fired a fraction of a second before impact. A white-hot warhead is seen coming out the far side of the tower. If the planes were weaponized into flying bombs they would have been prepared in every way to carry out their evil mission. I devoted the second chapter of Solving 9-11 to the planes.
JP: I believe I should mention, because some of our readers will advocate it, that there is a complete no-planes theory. I myself once seriously entertained that theory, because a cloaked missile is—more than an aircraft—capable of the speed, accuracy, and penetration witnessed on 9/11. However, Matt Nelson’s book 9/11 Debrisdocuments the rather large amount of aircraft debris found in various places near the Trade Center—too much, I’m afraid, for someone like Urban Moving Systems to have planted. In addition to this, one of the airline pilots I work closely with on 9/11 examined the plane entry holes in the two Towers. There are some inward bending steel bars, indicating a strike from outside, as opposed to purely pre-planted explosives. And as one would expect, the weaker wingtips did not penetrate, whereas the engines did. Titanium is stronger than steel, and when you get a pair of 4-ton titanium engines going over 500 mph, they can break steel, or at least break the bolts holding the steel panels together. So—to my own reckoning, even though some will disagree—we are left with two basic options: either the Towers were struck by the original planes, or by drones, but in either case, they would have had to be under remote control in order to guarantee those hits.
CB: I agree that the aircraft were flown by remote control.
JP: Now in your PowerPoint presentation you mentioned—as you just have here—the possibility that 767 refueling tankers were swapped for the original planes. To tell the truth, Chris, this didn’t register with me until I started examining it. It depends on the model, but 767 military tankers are generally faster and more robust than passenger 767s; they carry fuel instead of passengers—so they would generate a much bigger impact with a lot more fire—and, of course they could be built with remote control, and the hole they would create would match the approximate dimensions of a regular 767.
CB: That’s right, and an Israeli company named Bedek, which is tied to the Israeli military, was based in Florida and was in the business of converting Boeing 767 tanker aircraft. Converting a 767 into a flying bomb would have been something they could have managed.
JP: A couple of additional factors that favor drones are: to my knowledge, not a single aircraft part found in the vicinity of the Trade Center has ever been matched by serial number to Flights 11 or 175—not even a piece of landing gear discovered years later that spokesmen said had a clear serial number on it. Also, the black boxes for 77 and 93 were recovered, but their serial numbers were not published, which, it turns out, is very unorthodox in crash investigations.
Another factor that favors drones is that infamous three-dimensional pod you mentioned that was underneath Flight 175. This pod would have been noticed by flight maintenance crews at Logan Airport. Also, it is mandatory for the captain or first officer to do a walk-around inspection of an aircraft before takeoff—and I have been told by pilots that under no circumstances would a pilot leave Logan with that big object underneath. Popular Mechanics has claimed it’s just a wing faring—but if so, why does it distinctly flash just before hitting the South Tower?
CB: The flash on the South Tower is clearly a white-hot hole seen in the video images, about the diameter of the plane’s fuselage, which would have allowed the plane’s body to enter the building without any resistance. A depleted uranium warhead would have made such a hole, and that is exactly what we see, burning white-hot coming out the far side with great momentum. No part of the aircraft would burn white-hot and have that kind of momentum having passed through the tower.
JP: Chris, I have to go back to your comment on Bedek. I’d like to mention for my readers your outstanding research on the Israeli companies that emerged from Bedek, Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) and ATASCO. Right here in the United States, they were buying Boeings and modifying them—including modifying them into tankers, as well as constructing remote-control aircraft. For my readers who don’t know the story, could you relate what happened to you on the very day you spoke to Shalom Yoran, the chairman of ATASCO?
CB: Well, I was attacked by an undercover tactical unit of the Hoffman Estates Police Department on the day I spoke to Shalom Yoran, but that most unusual tactical unit had been prowling around my neighborhood for at least two days. I called 911 after I saw them pass the house on the second day. Although I was told to expect a uniformed policeman to respond to my call, this three man squad marched up my driveway and proceeded to tackle me and Taser me while I was pinned down. When I was pulled to my feet I saw that six or seven police cars were on the scene along with a fire truck and an ambulance. They had all been parked a couple blocks away and came to my house after the tactical unit had attacked me.
JP: If you can talk about it, how is Sweden treating you?
CB: Very fairly I would say. Things work pretty well in Sweden and corruption, like what I experienced with the police in my hometown, is very uncommon.
JP: There are also some objections to the drone theory. I’d like to ask you about these, Chris, not be a pain in the ass, but to see what your view of them is.
CB: That’s fine.
JP: The first objection is the difficulty of swapping drones for airliners mid-air without detection. I’ve listened to the air traffic controllers from Boston and New York describe their recollections of 9/11, and assuming they have not been told to suppress anything, it seems they had the planes pretty well tracked from Boston to the World Trade Center. Granted, 11 turned its identifying transponder off, leaving only a radar signal; 175 only turned off its transponder for a moment, then turned it back on with a different code. The controllers were clearing competing air traffic out of the way of these planes, and it’s hard to see a moment where drones could have been substituted, and the originals diverted, without being noticed. I know there’s been talk of drones being launched from Stewart Airport, where the paths of 11 and 175 crisscrossed, but I assume that to launch a couple of 767-sized drones from Stewart runways, you would need clearance from Stewart air traffic controllers, which would expand the conspiracy. Another possibility you’ve mentioned is drones leaving from defunct Canadian airfields. I think one possible explanation for the failure to notice swap-outs could be the dependence of the FAA on Israeli-based software. Also, I recently came across a video that says 11, 77, and 93 all turned off their transponders just when they entered zones where radar detection is known to be extremely poor. This would have been an ideal time to swap drones for planes. But whether or not they could really disguise these swaps undetected is a major question mark. Your thoughts?
CB: Well, the key thing to remember is that there were several wargames going on which involved false inputs on the radar screens, which confused the air traffic controllers a great deal. We don’t know how the aircraft were switched with the drones, but these wargames provided the opportunity and is what seems to have happened. The FAA also destroyed evidence in the form of air traffic control computer disks that were broken into pieces and thrown away.
JP: Well, I know that NORAD initially had these games interfering with their screens, the civilian FAA I don’t know. However, you’ve really ignited my interest about these FAA disks being destroyed. That would be a criminal act and it may mean that the air traffic controllers’ reconstruction of 9/11 has been revised. OK, I was going to ask you for a link to that story, but I believe I just found one. Is this what you’re referring to?
JP: The second objection to drones are the DNA samples at the World Trade Center. Now I realize the steel was sold off to China very rapidly; but it is also true that thousands of tiny human remains—usually no larger than a bone or finger—were recovered and subjected to DNA analysis, correlated with DNA samples supplied by families. In addition to identifying a large number of first responders and people who worked in the World Trade Center, they eventually identified a total of 79 people who had been on Flights 11 or 175. My source on that is the book 9/11 Debris, page 70. When confronted with this, I objected that the government has lied about other aspects of 9/11, like building 7 collapsing from office fires. But it was retorted to me that at least 6 different private DNA analysis firms had worked on the 9/11 remains. What are your thoughts on this, Chris? If correct, it supports the Towers being hit by the original planes, not substituted drones. My only alternative explanation is that if the planes were diverted and the passengers killed elsewhere, it would been easy to take DNA samples from the corpses and—not so easily—introduce them into the DNA analysis system as though they came from the Trade Center.
CB: Yes, the way the human remains were handled is another mystery. Many of them were sent to the mortuary at Dover AFB, which reportedly cremated the remains that could not be identified and simply threw them out. My understanding is that a few FBI agents managed this work at Dover AFB so the FBI was the agency who controlled the remains. That is what they did at Shanksville after they got the county coroner to turn over the crash site to them. The FBI’s record with the 9/11 investigation has been one of confiscation and destruction of evidence.
JP: Well, I think I should mention that Jesse Ventura interviewed a Ground Zero worker who said he was present when the FBI recovered black boxes—which, according to the official story, were never found at the World Trade Center. I’ll put a link for people who would like to see that interview. If true, it’s confirmation of what you just said about the FBI destroying evidence.
CB: Yes, the crucial evidence from the crime scenes was destroyed from the beginning. The FBI and the Department of Justice had responsibility for the criminal investigation and prosecution of the crimes, which did not happen under the leadership of Michael Chertoff, the assistant Attorney General responsible for the investigation and prosecution.
JP: I do want to mention that if people revert to a theory that the original planes were remote-controlled into the Towers, there are serious objections to this as well. Based on the conversations I’ve had with airline pilots—and despite what has been said in the Truth Movement—there is no known way to electronically hijack a 757 or 767 with the level of precision required on 9/11. Unlike the modern fly-by-wire 777s, when a pilot flies a 757 or 767, the basic flight system—elevators, ailerons, rudder—is hydraulic, with no computers involved. No computers means there’s nothing to hack into. Now it is absolutely true that the autopilot could be hacked. But the problem with that is, the autopilot runs on commercial-grade (not military-grade) GPS that is only accurate to about 1/10th of a mile; not precise enough to make those direct hits on the Trade Center and Pentagon. Recently we’ve been looking into some evidencethat a higher grade of GPS may have been available to those planes, and I do know one Boeing pilot who has a compelling theory, which I think I should mention here. The autopilot runs on a flight plan selected by the pilots. The plans are embedded in a box in the cockpit called the Flight Management Control unit. He believes this FMC box, which according to his research was made in Israel, secretly contained flight plans to hit the 9/11 targets—so all the hijackers had to do, in essence, was to switch the autopilot from the flight plan for Los Angeles to the secret flight plan for the World Trade Center. But again, it depends on the questionably accuracy of the GPS. Do you have any current thoughts, pro or con, on the possibility of remotely hijacking the original planes? I realize some technology might have been used that is beyond our knowledge.
CB: No, I don’t. I did look into the AP news story that Flight 93 had landed at Cleveland’s airport on 9/11 due to a bomb scare, which had been confirmed by the airlines and reported in Ohio on 9/11.
JP: Oh, yes, that would be the “Cleveland mystery plane” that still has questions surrounding it. Well, finally, Chris, I want to ask you about the alleged Arab hijackers. I hope you’ll pardon my digressing for a minute here, but last year, I, with the help of flight professionals, proposed a theory for the fate of the original planes and passengers. Because something must have happened to them if the drone theory is correct. I looked at it from this perspective: If I were the Israelis, how would I plan it? I do believe the hijackings were real—I think trying to get the Truth Movement to blame the flight crews and passengers for making “fake phone calls” is an attempt to shift blame from Israelis back to the Americans who were truly victims. Anyway, our theory was that, leaving nothing to chance, the original planes were hijacked by Israel’s best special ops—the Sayeret Matkal, who boarded using Arab IDs. One of the reasons for our believing this is the amazing proficiency with which the hijackings were executed.
Take Flight 175. At 8:42 AM the pilots were still talking to flight control. Yet at 9:03, 175 already—supposedly—struck the South Tower. Invading the cockpit, killing the pilots, removing them from their seats, taking control of the plane, turning the transponder off and then on with a new code, turning the plane around, rapidly descending, then ramming it perfectly into the Tower—all in 21 minutes or less? That’s James Bond-like proficiency. It certainly doesn’t sound like the motley crew of amateurs Bin Laden is supposed to have put together, none of whom had ever even been in a Boeing cockpit before.
Our theory, in a nutshell, was that drones were swapped for planes, just as you have suggested. The Sayeret Matkal easily invaded the cockpits by using keys supplied by El-Al (the keys back then were universal for all Boeing cockpits), killed the pilots, then flew the Boeings—which they had plenty of experience on—over the Atlantic, which was right next to the 9/11 targets. They only hijacked planes bound for LA because they needed enough fuel for a getaway across the Atlantic. Our theory was that they killed the passengers by depressurizing the cabins, and landed at Lajes Air Base in the Azores for refueling. Lajes is closer to Boston than LA, it’s clandestinely used by the CIA, and it’s also a civilian airliner diversion airport for refueling. They could have blended in with all the other planes being forced to reroute back to Europe on 9/11. They would have then flown the planes over sub-Saharan Africa that night, and up to hangars in Israel, the one place no one would ever find them. Of course, proving all this in another matter! Have you ever encountered anything that might support such a scenario?
CB: No, I had not heard this scenario before. It seems to be mostly speculation. I don’t know what happened to the passengers, which is why we need a proper criminal investigation of 9/11—something which has not happened in 17 years!
JP: I just read an interesting post that looks at 9/11, not from Israel’s strategic perspective, but from Bin Laden’s strategic perspective. Most of his “muscle hijackers” were 5’5” to 5’7” tall and of slender build. Why would Bin Laden pick such small men? Why not big men who would be intimidating? And how did these little guys manage to cut the throats of Danny Lewin—a trained assassin, formerly in the Sayeret Matkal himself, who could bench-press 300 pounds—and the rather tall, virile pilots in the cockpit?
CB: The head of the FBI at the time, Robert Mueller, admitted a year later that the FBI had no evidence to identify the alleged hijackers of the planes. Furthermore, about six of the suspected hijackers were reported to be alive and well by the BBC after 9/11 and we know that six or seven of the alleged hijackers had been issued duplicate drivers licenses in Florida. What seems to have happened on 9/11 is that false identities were used to give the appearance that Arabs had hijacked the aircraft although not a single plane gave the signal of having been hijacked.
JP: And for a critical mission like 9/11, why would Bin Laden send men with zero pilot experience to flight schools, hoping they would make it as pilots for the Crime of the Century? If you were going to rob a bank, wouldn’t you hire an experienced driver for the getaway car? You wouldn’t send a man who didn’t know how to drive to driving school, hope that he got his license, and hope that he would then turn out to be a great getaway driver. Surely Bin Laden, with his wealth, connections, and years of fighting in Afghanistan, must have known some recruitable men with some flying experience.
CB: Good point.
JP: Chris, I recently read a piece by you entitled “Israel’s History of False Flag Operations against the U.S.A.” In that article’s timeline, for 2001 you wrote, “Israeli intelligence creates false histories for alleged hijackers.” Could you elaborate on that? When we read about the 19 Arab hijackers, are we often reading Mossad-fabricated backgrounds?
CB: Yes, it is a standard Israeli practice which can be read about in The Little Drummer Girl, a novel about such Israeli operations by John LeCarre. It involves using false IDs, like the duplicate licenses I referred to, to create a false trail in order to implicate someone in a crime. The fact that six of seven of these “hijackers” were found to be still alive after 9/11 indicates that something like this was going on in Florida, where Israeli “art students” lived in close proximity to the “hijackers”.
JP: An interesting case is Ziad Jarrah, the alleged hijacker pilot of Flight 93. Two of his first cousins were arrested in Lebanon as spies for Mossad. And there is strong evidence that he never boarded 93. Although the official story claims he was one of 4 hijackers to take over 93, the passenger phone calls consistently said there were only 3 hijackers. And in the cockpit transcript for 93, the other hijackers refer to the pilot as “Saeed” (Saeed al-Ghamdi).The only evidence that Jarrah boarded 93 at all is his passport being found at Shanksville, but amazingly, Israelis in an Urban Moving Systems truck were arrested a short distance from the Shanksville crash site, raising the question if they planted Jarrah’s passport. Prior to 9/11, Jarrah lived separately from the other Flight 93 hijackers. In his martyrdom video, he was laughing and couldn’t even keep a straight face. I want to give a shout-out to DJ Thermal Detonator of Truther TV, who recently published an article very critical of both me and you, but who called these points about Jarrah to my attention.
CB: As I said, even the FBI is unable to prove who the hijackers were. And if these hijackers were on the aircraft. why were their names not on the original passenger lists?
JP: Yes, there’s long been considerable controversy about those passenger manifests. I think I should also ask you about Atta, who was alleged to be the ringleader, and is an even stranger character than Jarrah. First you have him in Florida, snorting cocaine, boozing it up, hanging out with a pink-haired stripper, and doing other stuff that does not remotely fit the profile of an Islamic fundamentalist. But it’s his actions on 9/11 that are particularly suspect. His luggage supposedly contained the plans for 9/11 and the names of the hijackers. But why was it the only luggage not to make it onto Flight 11, all too conveniently giving the FBI the information they needed—everything except being tied up with a pretty pink ribbon on it? Why would Atta bother bringing luggage on a suicide mission? Why would he put the whole scheme in his luggage, and risk having the bag opened by security and the plan discovered and ruined? Why would he take a connecting flight from Portland, Maine that morning, which risked his missing Flight 11 due to a delay in Portland, and also meant that his bags would have to go through security twice?
To this day, the FBI says Atta was in row 8 of Flight 11—perhaps he purchased a ticket for that row? But since the flight attendants, Ong and Sweeney, took great care to identify the seats of the hijackers, and never identified any hijacker being in row 8, and since Atta’s family said he called them the day after 9/11, my best guess is that he never boarded the plane, but his role was just to plant a damning trail of evidence.
It’s as if Jarrah and Atta were working for Mossad, possibly setting up the other Arabs as patsies. Does this seem credible to you, and what does your research lead you to conclude about Atta?
CB: Yes, it seems to me that the whole thing was set up to give the appearance that the planes were hijacked by Arab Muslims, but that is simply part of the distraction because the explosive destruction of the Twin Towers was certainly not carried out by Arabs. For this reason I have not spent a lot of time discussing the Arab patsies of 9/11.
JP: In your book, you point out that Ptech was providing sensitive software used by the FAA, the FBI, the Secret Service, the Navy and Air Force. On the surface, Ptech was a tiny Lebanese start-up with ties to a high-profile Saudi known to finance global terrorism. Why would U.S. government agencies trust such a dubious company for vital software? Yet when you dug beneath the surface, you found its software was being procured by a Zionist linked to Israel.
CB: Yes, Ptech of Quincy, Mass., had enterprise software running on all the essential government computers on 9/11. While the company appeared to be Arab-owned and operated, one of the key people in setting up the company was a Zionist lawyer who later worked for Guardium, an Israeli software company connected to Israeli military intelligence. This suggests that Ptech was a company with a false Arab front, with Israeli intel inside.
JP: Another amazing example you give in Solving 9/11 is Next Graphics, which was registered as “Palestinian” but was Israeli-owned. They even went to the trouble of putting Islamic graphics on display, even though the employees were Israelis.
CB: Yes, when Israeli companies put on an Arab front they are probably not up to anything good!
JP: I get the impression that the Israelis are experts at creating Arab fronts for all the dirty work they do, especially as regards 9/11. Which brings me to my last and ultimate question. There’s a 9/11 investigator named Ryan Dawson who makes an interesting point. Today, the United States supports Al Qaeda in Syria. Years ago, we supported them as the mujahedeen fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. So the question Dawson asks is, if they were working for us before 9/11, and were working for us after 9/11, is it that hard to believe they were working for us ON 9/11? And as you’ve pointed out, Osama Bin Laden’s older brother Salem was actually a partner of George W. Bush in Bush’s Arbusto Energy oil company. I have always wondered, Chris, if one kept pulling the string on Osama Bin Laden, is it conceivable that he actually was, all along, an agent of the West and Israelis, despite his many denunciations of them?
CB: Well, Osama bin Laden and the Afghan Arabs were trained in Pakistan in the early 1980s. The training and weapons were provided by Israeli military intelligence to the jihadis fighting with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar against Soviet forces in Afghanistan. The weapons were those that Israel had taken from the battlefields of Lebanon in 1982. The Israelis had a terrorist bombing network in Lebanon and simply took the terrorist trainers to Pakistan in 1983. At this time Israeli military intelligence was headed by Ehud Barak. Osama bin Laden’s first trainer was a Hebrew-speaking Egyptian named Ali Mohamed. The CIA and Saudi Arabia provided the funding to create this Israeli-trained band of jihadi terrorists in Pakistan. In 1994, these jihadis merged into Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
JP: Chris, the longer you talk, the more I know! Before we close, is there anything else you’d like to say?
CB: Thank you!
JP: I want to thank you for honoring me with your expertise, and for taking time from your busy schedule to field so many questions.
CB: You are welcome.
Christopher Bollyn’s Website is http://bollyn.com/. Here are his books which he mentioned in this interview:
Solving 9-11: The Deception that Changed the World
Solving 9-11: The Original Articles
The War on Terror: The Plot to Rule the Middle East
Powerful Interview with Anti-War Author Christopher Bollyn (2018)